Angriff auf Ludwigshafen 27. Mai 1944

Diskutiere Angriff auf Ludwigshafen 27. Mai 1944 im WK I & WK II Forum im Bereich Geschichte der Fliegerei; Moin. Hat jemand eventuell konkrete Zahlen und Fakten dazu, speziell: - deutsche Abschüsse und Verluste - alliierte Abschüsse und Verluste -...

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  1. #1 Schorsch, 22.12.2008

    Schorsch Alien

    Dabei seit:
    Flugzeugzeug machen.
    mit Elbblick
    Hat jemand eventuell konkrete Zahlen und Fakten dazu, speziell:
    - deutsche Abschüsse und Verluste
    - alliierte Abschüsse und Verluste
    - Erfolg der Bombadierungen

    Ist dieser Angriff in irgendeiner Weise besonders vermerkt (aufgrund dort zum ersten Mal eingesetzter Taktiken, oder besonders hoher Verluste, besonders efektivem Begleitschutz, etc).

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  3. #2 McMaster, 22.12.2008

    McMaster Guest

    Aus der Chronik der USAAF:

    344 B-17s are dispatched to marshalling yards at Ludwigshafen (150 bomb)
    and Mannheim (125 bomb); 18 hit Lachen/Apeyerdorf, 19 hit the Mannheim area
    and 6 hit targets of opportunity; 12 B-17s are lost and 98 damaged; 2 airmen
    are KIA, 5 WIA and 114 MIA.
  4. #3 McMaster, 22.12.2008
    Zuletzt von einem Moderator bearbeitet: 22.12.2008

    McMaster Guest

    Kurzer Bericht eines T/Sgt. Armand Fugge

    Von Clarence E. "Bud" Anderson, 363d Fighter Squadron, 357th Fighter Group gibt es folgendes im Netz:
    On 27 May 1944, Anderson was escorting bombers to Ludwigshafen and Mannheim, Germany. His group spotted a large number of enemy fighters about to attack the bomber formation. They dropped their tanks and turned sharply to engage the enemy fighters. Immediately, four Me-109s were spotted diving on their formation from five o'clock high. A sharp turn thwarted the enemy attack and the four Germans pulled up and began circling with the Mustangs. One German broke away and was pursued by another pair of Mustangs while Anderson and his wingman pursued the remaining three. He quickly downed two Me-109s and forced the other to run for home. His supporting element disposed of the other Me-109 and rejoined to continue escorting the bombers to their target.

    Von der 457th BG gibt es folgenden Bericht über ihre 52. Mission:
    Six Combat Wings of the 1st Division were dispatched to the banks of the Rhine River to bomb the marshalling yards in the twin cities of Lu4wigshafen and Mannheim. The 457th, as lead of the 94th A Combat Wing, led the Eighth Air Force in the procession to these targets. The 457th supplied thirty-six craft to form the lead and the low boxes in the Wing. Col. James R. Luper led as Air Commander with Lt. Charles D. Brannan as pilot. Captain Jacob M. Dickinson led the low box with Lt. Malcolm E. Johnson as pilot.

    En route to the target, the Group fell victim of a massive frontal attack by Me-109s. The craft piloted by Lt. Artie J. Whitlow was hit on the right wing; a part of the wing came off and the No. 3 engine caught on fire. The ship went into a tight spiral before developing a spin. It crashed into a wooded area and exploded. Lt. Whitlow did not survive.

    The craft piloted by Lt. William E. Dee was hit, dropped out of formation and headed back towards the Channel. One crewman was killed, the others became prisoners of war. Lt. Thomas E. Lee received direct hits and his engineer was killed instantly.

    Lt. Roger W. Birkman's and Lt. David K. Summerville's planes were knocked out of formation. With an engine on fire and losing altitude, Lt. Birkman left the formation and the crew bailed out. Five of the crew were captured and became prisoners of war. The others evaded capture and later returned to England after the invasion.

    Lt. Summerville returned to the base after having fires in three of his craft's engines. Two engines were lost completely With the propeller breaking off of one engine, and the tins breaking off the other. He ultimately made a landing at Glat ton with limited power in only one engine.

    The Luftwaffe attack lasted twenty-five minutes before it was brought to an end. The Group continued to the primary arget, bombing it with fair results. The Luftwaffe had succeeded in disrupting the formation, causing the low box to go in before the lead box. The lead box did a 360 degree turn and the second time around found the target covered with smoke that was rising thousands of feet in the air. Flak was heavy over the target area with thirteen aircraft receiving flak damage. To offset the losses, the 457th received credit for destroying one enemy aircraft and damaging five others.

    Lt. Roy W. Allen came in to land only to discover one landing gear would not come down. Rather than attempt a belly landing, he chose to attempt a one wheel landing. He touched down, kept the wing up as long as possible, and concluded with a 180 degree ground loop. There were no injuries.

    Ein Bericht der 384th BG von ihrer 116. Mission:

    The takeoff was at 0830 hours. Mannheim is near the French border, and was clear for visual bombing. Fighter attacks started 15 minutes before the target. A large group of FW-190s had circled the group in preparation for an attack just as the P-51 escort showed up. Two groups of Mustangs attacked and a huge dogfight followed, just out of range of the B-17 gunners. Fighters from both sides went down into the foothills of the Alps. Parachutes were like sky markers in the area of the fight. One B-17 in another group started down, but the attackers were quickly driven off and chutes appeared from the crippled bomber. By this time the group was over the target and the 88-mm FLAK took over the job of trying to destroy the bombers. The 384th escaped this and were then faced with rockets and 155-mm FLAK. Holes appeared in some of the group’s bombers, but all managed to escape. Ten 500 lb. General Purpose bombs per plane had been dropped on Mannheim rail yards, and the 384th headed for home. The target was well marked with smoke and fires.

    Just across the river, at Ludwigshafen, some other groups in the Wing had made a carbon copy of the destruction at Mannheim. All our ships made it home once again.
  5. #4 phantomderpfalz, 22.12.2008

    phantomderpfalz Space Cadet

    Dabei seit:
    Mont Royal
    Luftangriff auf Ludwigshafen/ Rhein und Mannheim am Samstag, 27.05.1944

    - 2x Luftarlarm 00:18 - 01:33Uhr, 12:04 - 14:03Uhr
    - Störangriff, Abwurf von 2 Minen, 15 Sprengbomben und 100 Flüssigkeitsbomben.
    - Terrorangriff: 500 amerikanische Flugzeuge in 7000 - 8000m aus Süden werfen bei klaren Himmel 1Mine, 950 Spreng-, 200 Flüssigkeits-, 200 Stabbrandbomben aufs Stadtgebiet, Badenwerk, Rangierbahnhof, Lanz...

    - 27.05.1944 Luftangriff
    8 Maschinen der RAF gegen Frankfurt. 923 schwere Bomber B17 und B24 gegen Verlade-bahnhöfe, Flugzeugwerke, Flugplätze auch in Mannheim. 24 Bomber verloren.
    Erstmals Rauch-Bodenmarkierung.


    - der 23.Luftangriff von 124 der Allierten auf die Stadt Ludwigshafen

    - Krankenhaus St. Annastift zu 80 Prozent zerstört

    -Um 13 Uhr richtet sich ein Luftangriff auf die Großräume Saarbrücken, Neunkirchen, Metz und Ludwigshafen statt, die Bezirkskabel der Reichspost Ludwigshafen - Neustadt, Ludwigshafen-Speyer fallen aus.

    -26/27 May 1944
    30 Mosquitos to Ludwigshafen, 2 Mosquitos were lost from the Ludwigshafen raid. Quelle:

    - 42-31594, B-17, 27/05/1944 Abgeschossen durch deutsche Jäger beim Einsatz nach Ludwigshafen

    -Luftangriffe auf Ludwigshafen (5.1.1945)
  6. #5 Schorsch, 22.12.2008

    Schorsch Alien

    Dabei seit:
    Flugzeugzeug machen.
    mit Elbblick
    Danke für die schnellen Auskünfte!

    Sind 12/344 nicht eine erstaunlich niedrige Verlustquote? Immerhin etwa nur 3%, für einen Tagangriff Mai 44 eine ziemlich gute Zahl, oder?

    Gibt es Angaben über die Anzahl der Begleitjäger?
  7. #6 modelldoc, 22.12.2008

    modelldoc Space Cadet

    Dabei seit:

    Für die Mission 373 waren 170 P-38, 238 P-47 und 302 P-51 im Einsatz.

  8. EDCG

    EDCG Astronaut

    Dabei seit:
    im Norden
    Um die Verlustquote zu berechnen müsste man wohl wissen
    wie sich die Schäden der 98 (!) beschädigten Maschinen im
    einzelnen darstellten. Da werden möglicherweise auch einige
    dabei gewesen sein, die total abgeschrieben werden mussten.
  9. #8 McMaster, 22.12.2008

    McMaster Guest

    Hier nochmal die B-17er Verluste vom 27. Mai 1944 von

    (BO) 96/337/AW-U 27/05/1944 MAC mit B-17 42-102515 beim Einsatz nach Karlsruhe, Deutschland. 10 KIA
    MAC with B-17 42-102515 on mission to Karlsruhe, Germany. 10 KIA 5161

    (DL) 457/748/?? 27/05/1944 Abgeschossen durch Jäger beim Einsatz nach Ludwigshafen, Deutschland. 5 POW; 5 EVD
    Shot down by fighters on mission to Ludwigshafen, Germany. 5 POW; 5 EVD 5298

    42-31594/Sweater Out
    (BO) 457/751/??-G 27/05/1944 Abgeschossen durch Jäger beim Einsatz nach Ludwigshafen, Deutschland. 2 KIA; 6 POW; 1 EVD
    Shot down by fighters on mission to Ludwigshafen, Germany. 2 KIA; 6 POW; 1 EVD 5299

    (DL) 381/532/VE-A 27/05/1944 Abgeschossen durch Jäger über Ludwigshafen, Deutschland. Abgestürzt bei Champfleury, Frankreich. 1 KIA; 5 POW; 3 EVD
    Shot down by German fighters over Ludwigshafen, Germany. Crashed near Champfleury, France. 1 KIA; 5 POW; 3 EVD 5182

    42-107042/Liberty Run
    (DL) 91/401/LL-Z 27/05/1944 Beschädigt durch Flak. Notlandung in der Schweiz. 9 INT
    Damaged by flak. Landed in Switzerland. 9 INT 5356

    42-31649/Shatzi III
    (BO) 390/569/?? 27/05/1944 Aka "Old Soldier" - Beschädigt beim Einsatz nach Karlsruhe, Deutschland - Verschrottet
    Aka "Old Soldier" - Damaged on mission to Karlsruhe, Germany - Scrapped -

    (BO) 305/366/ 27/05/1944 Abgeschossen durch Flak beim Einsatz nach Ludwigshafen, Deutschland. Abgestürzt bei Dorn-Dürkheim oder Bad Dürkheim, Deutschland. 2 KIA; 8 POW
    Shot down by flak on mission to Ludwigshafen, Germany. Crashed near Dorn-Dürkheim or Bad Dürkheim, Germany. 2 KIA; 8 POW 5338

    (BO) 351/510/TU-B 27/05/1944 Abgeschossen durch Jäger beim Einsatz nach Ludwigshafen, Deutschland. Bruchlandung in der Schweiz. 10 INT
    Shot down by fighters on mission to Ludwigshafen, Germany. Crash landing in Switzerland. 10 INT 5332
  10. #9 McMaster, 22.12.2008

    McMaster Guest

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  12. #10 McMaster, 22.12.2008
    Zuletzt von einem Moderator bearbeitet: 22.12.2008

    McMaster Guest

    Hier sind sämtliche MACRs vom 27.Mai 1944

    A/C Serial....Date..........MACR__ Grp___ Sqd A/C Type
    42-97460....5/27/1944...5295___ 457___ 749 B-17
    42-31594....5/27/1944...5299___ 457___ 751 B-17
    42-97603....5/27/1944...5266___ 385___ B-17
    42-38055....5/27/1944...5298___ 457___ 748 B-17
    42-31880....5/27/1944...5338___ 305___ 366 B-17
    42-31899....5/27/1944...5332___ 351___ 510 B-17
    42-31975....5/27/1944...5331___ 351___ 510 B-17
    42-107023..5/27/1944...5182___ 381___ 532 B-17
    42-107042..5/27/1944...5356___ 91____ 401 B-17
    42-97149....5/27/1944...5327___ 351___ 509 B-17
    42-97157....5/27/1944...5330___ 351___ 508 B-17
    42-97295....5/27/1944...5255___ 390___ 571 B-17
    2-97269.....5/27/1944...5161___ 96____ 337 B-17
    42-102470..5/27/1944...5325___ 351___ 508 B-17
    42-102475..5/27/1944...5162___ 96____ 338 B-17
    42-102515..5/27/1944...5163___ 96____ 338 B-17
    42-102613..5/27/1944...5324___ 351___ 508 B-17
    42-102572..5/27/1944...5301___ 452___ 728 B-17
    42-102561..5/27/1944...5164___ 96____ 337 B-17
    42-78213....5/27/1944...5413___ 454___ B-24
    42-78092....5/27/1944...5417___ 464___ B-24
    41-29444....5/27/1944...6124___ 464___ B-24
    42-52399....5/27/1944...5416___ 461___ 767 B-24
    42-94951....5/27/1944...5261___ 389___ 567 B-24
    42-94946....5/27/1944...5388___ 458___ 752 B-24
    42-95091....5/27/1944...5260___ 389___ 567 B-24
    42-95159....5/27/1944...5631___ 458___ 755 B-24
    42-95183....5/27/1944...5632___ 458___ 755 B-24
    42-110106..5/27/1944...5196___ 307___ B-24
    44-40102....5/27/1944...5209___ 492___ 856 B-24

    42-75253....5/27/1944...9835___ 36____ P-47
    42-75940....5/27/1944...6027___ 348___ P-47
    43-25315....5/27/1944...5132___ 48____ P-47
    43-25521....5/27/1944...5088___ 48____ P-47
    42-26361....5/27/1944...5072___ 27____ P-47
    42-22661....5/27/1944...5754___ 35____ P-47
    42-74963....5/27/1944...5183___ 27____ P-47
    42-106632..5/27/1944...5110___ 357___ 364 P-51
    42-106640..5/27/1944...5111___ 357___ 364 P-51
    42-106464..5/27/1944...5724___ 4____ 335 P-51
    43-6556.....5/27/1944...5107___ 357___ 362 P-51
    43-6653.....5/27/1944...5108___ 357____ 364 P-51
  13. #11 McMaster, 23.12.2008

    McMaster Guest

    Hier habe ich noch eine Story über die 357th FG:

    27th May 1944 - The arrival of the first Mustang - in pieces

    On 27th May 1944, 930 heavy bombers from the 8th USAAF took off from their bases in England to attack important industrial targets in central Germany. They were escorted by 710 escort fighters of the types P-38 Lightning, P-47 Thunderbolt and P-51 Mustang in order to prevent the bombers from being attacked by German fighter planes. Main target for 150 Boeing B-17 bombers of the 1st Air Division was Ludwigshafen. Assigned escort was the famous 357th Fighter Group ‘Yoxford Boys’ with their P-51 Mustangs. For the men in their fighters with yellow/red checkered noses this was Mission #65 and the unit was led this day by Major Irwin H. Dregne. Shortly after R/V, the bomber formation was attacked by approx. 60 Focke-Wulf FW-190’s and Messerschmitt Me-109’s which managed to shoot down several bombers from the lead formation. Although the 357th FG immediately went into action, they could not disperse the enemy fighters on time. The ensuing battle between the German fighters and the Mustangs resulted in the downing of 14 German planes. Lts. Cyril Conklin and Thomas Harris managed to destroy two planes each before being hit, too. Both had to bail out of their disabled Mustangs and spent the rest of the war as POW’s. Lt. Dean Post was fatally wounded and perished in the crash of his plane.

    23 years old Capt. Robert D. Brown from Chicago, IL, a veteran and original member of the 357th Fighter Groups’s 362nd Fighter Squadron scored his 3rd aerial victory that day, but his aircraft was hit, too, and received heavy damage to the elevator controls. The Merlin-engine also was damaged by debris form Brown's victim. A return to his home-base in England was out of question and he therefore set course for neutral Switzerland. He crossed the northern Swiss border near Lake Constance but decided to wait with bailing out of his stricken aircraft because he feared to land in German territory. After some time the Mustang became almost impossible to control and the engine started to overheat and loose coolant, so the pilot jettisoned the canopy and turned the Mustang on its back to bail out, but the inflatable dinghy pack somehow got stuck in the cockpit. It took Brown several attempts to free himself from his mount, which then went into a steep dive and crashed in the vicinity of Lütisburg. The Mustang totally disintegrated upon impact in a meadow close to a restaurant and only bent and scorched remains were scattered over a wide area.

    In his struggle to abandon the Mustang, Brown had hit the elevator and suffered a broken leg. Saved by his parachute, he landed in a tall fir tree and had to be rescued by local people. He was brought to a nearby hospital where he immediately saw medical treatment before being interrogated by Swiss authorities. Capt. Brown spent the rest of the war in internment. He returned to England in October 1945 by ferrying another interned Mustang from Dübendorf Airfield back to BAD 1 Burtonwood, but only after buzzing the town of Zurich at very low level.

    The Mustang Capt. Brown flew on this mission was his assigned aircraft, an olive-drab P-51B-5-NA with serial 43-6556. This particular aircraft, equipped with a Packard Rolls-Royce V-1650-3 engine was rolled out from the NAA plant at Inglewood, CA, on 22nd October 1943 and after a test-flight was ferried to Newark, NJ, where the plane saw some modifications before being sent to the ETO. It was then dismantled, crated and loaded aboard a freighter which left the harbour on 14th December 1943. Arriving in Blackpool, England, after the Atlantic crossing in January 1944, the plane was reassembled at BAD 2 Warton before being issued to the 357th Fighter Group. Arriving at Army Air Force Base F-373 Leiston, the Mustang was assigned to the 362nd Fighter Squadron and received the code G4-B. Capt. Brown soon personalized his newly assigned plane by applying the nickname ‘Chicago Gun Moll’ on the left cowling.
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Thema: Angriff auf Ludwigshafen 27. Mai 1944
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