chengduj10
Kunstflieger
J10
ich finde heute im Internet 2 neue pics. vielleicht auch nicht neu.
ich finde heute im Internet 2 neue pics. vielleicht auch nicht neu.
chengduj10 schrieb:ich finde heute im Internet 2 neue pics. vielleicht auch nicht neu.
Antwort: Nein.Alex der Grosse schrieb:Hi
Ich geh ja nicht von irgendwelche Clips aus. Die Su27/30 hat es schon mehr mals bewiesen das sie sehr wendig ist und auch warscheinlich der beste Luftkampf jet ist z.B die Inder haben mit der Su 27 glaube ich den Amis das fürchten beigebracht die F-15 hatte keine chance. Die Fanzosen konnten auch keine erfolge erzielen mit der Mirage 2000 gegen die Su. Das waren zwar nur übungen aber die Westlichen Jets (ausser Rafale,Ef,F-22) Hatten keinen Luftsieg. Das ist doch beweis genug oder?
Danke ... Interessant an dem Foto ist, dass es sich um den - evtl. zweiten Vorserienprototypen - mit der Nummer 1002 handelt, der zudem noch mit den üblichen PL-8 und den eher selten gesehenen PL-11 zu sehen ist.chengduj10 schrieb:
BigLinus schrieb:@ Deino
Bist du sicher, daß es sich bei deinem Foto um eine J10 handelt?
Die Flügelspitzen sind rund anstatt gerade, die Steuerflügel in der Höhe des Kabinenendes sind nicht erkennbar, die Heckflossen unterhalb der Düse fehlen. Dies sind nur drei Punkte die mit den sonstigen Fotos zur J10 nicht übereinstimmen.
Auch wenn diese Diskussion nun schon etwas länger zurück liegt ... ich konnte es ja zunächst nicht glauben, aber nachdem ich gestern meine Festplatte "durchmistet" habe, konnte ich dieses Bild einer früheren Gripen-Studie "ausgraben".Deino schrieb:Verstehe ich Dich richtig, es gab Verbindungen zwischen Lavi und Gripen ????
Gruß, Deino
Das muss aber eine sehr fruehe Studie gewesen sein. Im Prinzip ist es ja auch nicht so entscheidend, ob nun der Einlauf neben oder unterm Rumpf ist. Fuer beides gibt es Argumente. Wenn man sich nicht entscheiden kann, macht man es so wie bei der Rafale.Deino schrieb:Auch wenn diese Diskussion nun schon etwas länger zurück liegt ... ich konnte es ja zunächst nicht glauben, aber nachdem ich gestern meine Festplatte "durchmistet" habe, konnte ich dieses Bild einer früheren Gripen-Studie "ausgraben".
Deino :D
Das stimmt sicherlich, denn wie Sens ausgeführt hat, bestanden ja nur ganz am Anfang der Projekte Kontakte über eine eventuelle Kooperation !Schorsch schrieb:Das muss aber eine sehr fruehe Studie gewesen sein. Im Prinzip ist es ja auch nicht so entscheidend, ob nun der Einlauf neben oder unterm Rumpf ist. Fuer beides gibt es Argumente. Wenn man sich nicht entscheiden kann, macht man es so wie bei der Rafale.
JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - JANUARY 11, 2006
China working on 'Super-10' advanced fighter
HENRY IVANOV JDW Correspondent
Moscow
* Plans are under way to install a passive phased-array radar and more powerful thrust-vectored engine onto a redeveloped J-10
* Russian involvement is key to the improvements
China is developing an advanced version of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC) J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, referred to as the Super-10, with a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control, stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar, according to Russian sources.
Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RSK-MiG) specialists, contracted to provide technical assist- ance to Chinese design houses, said the enhancement to the J-10 airframe is a logical step, since the fighter was initially intended to have the compact Pratt&Whitney PW1120 engine that powered the Israeli Lavi aircraft, which served as a basis for the J-10.
However, the imposition of US export restrictions forced the decision to install the 20 per cent heavier Russian AL-31FN engine, which requires a larger intake as it needs 40 per cent more air flow.
The J-10 was planned to carry the Phazotron-State Scientific Research Institute of Radio (NIIR) Zhemchug radar with mechanically scanned slotted antenna: a derivative of the Zhuk series fitted to advanced MiG-29 models. While Russia supplied three units to China and assisted Chinese institutes working on the J-10 fire-control system, Phazotron-NIIR does not have any additional Chinese orders. Company officials said the Zhemchug could not be copied because designers would not have access to some of its critical components, such as various Russian-made chips that are impossible to copy.
However, another Russian radar firm, Tikhomirov NIIP, said it had recently resumed working with China on a derivative of the Pero passive phased-array radar. The company said a developmental Pero unit was supplied to China in the late 1990s but, after a short test period, it was kept unused until recently when China restarted a joint programme with Tikhomirov NIIP.
Pero, originally developed for the discontinued Su-30KN multirole fighter, may well have been taken as a specimen for a Super-10 radar. Tikhomirov NIIP previously worked on a scaled-down version of the Pero for the MiG-29 and such a unit could fit into a planned Super-10.
In late 2005 China placed a USD300 million order for a second batch of AL-31FN engines; these are a derivative of the Su-27's AL-31F for single-engine aircraft, with a lower positioning of the gearbox. At first, it was believed the contract was for the same engines as in the first batch of 54 units supplied in 2001-02 and installed into development prototypes and initial production J-10s. However, AL-31FN-maker Moscow Machine Production Plant (MMPP) Salyut in December 2005 revealed the order to be for the AL-31FN M1, which is claimed to be a new AL-31FN production standard.
The company's general manager, Yuri Eliseyev, said the new engine was purposely developed for what he referred to as the "Chinese Super-10 fighter". Four such engines have been seen assembled at MMPP Salyut's Moscow production site. One of these has been demonstrated undergoing fire testing, during which its swivel nozzle was deflected up/down and sideways at full power and reheated thrust.
Eliseyev said the AL-31FN M1 differs from the original in having an enlarged fan with an inlet diameter of 924 mm instead of 902 mm. The increased airflow boosts the engine's thrust at full afterburner from 27,560 lbst (122.6 kN) to 29,760 lbst (132.4 kN). It also has a swivel nozzle developed by Salyut together with St Petersburg-based Zavod imeni Klimova.
The nozzle features the Klimov Vectored Thrust (KliVT) design earlier applied to the RD-33OVT on the MiG-29OVT vectored-thrust demonstrator. Unlike the similar Nauchno-Proizvodstvennoe Obiedinenie (NPO) Saturn design in use on the Indian Air Force Su-30MKI multirole fighters, which deflects only in pitch, the KliVT deflects in both pitch and yaw.
Eliseyev said the new swivel nozzle, compared to pitch-only designs, is "a lot more suitable" for single-engined aircraft, giving them the capability to remain fully controllable at extremely low speeds.
For twin-engined aircraft the nozzle is "merely an unnecessary complication", Eliseyev said, since they can be controlled in yaw and bank as efficiently by different thrust settings for right and left engines. Eliseyev stated that the swivel nozzle has been certified for a 750-hour lifetime before removal, while testing continues for 1,000 hours, as required by the Chinese.
The fan used in the AL-31FN M1 has already been flight-tested on AL-31F M engines in Sukhoi Su-27 multirole fighter test-beds 595 and 598. These test-beds have two such engines with swivel nozzles. These aircraft, belonging to Gromov's Flight Test and Research Institute (LII) along with two more Su-27s (one using AL-31F engines and one using AL-31F M1s), have been employed in manufacturer trials and, more recently, state acceptance trials of the new engines.
Eliseyev stated that, as of late December 2005, only four flights remained to be performed before completion of the state acceptance trials, which should result in official approval for AL-31F M1 and AL-31FN M1 production. The engine will be certified for a time-between-overhaul of 1,000 hours and an assigned lifetime of 2,000 hours.
Among the AL-31FN M1 innovations is the KR99Ts digital control block and SAU-234 Full Authority Digital Engine Control. These have been certified as part of the AL-31F/FN M1 design. Eliseyev said that, upon certification, "local and overseas customers will be offered further advanced engines: the M2 and M3".
The first AL-31F M2 entered bench testing in January 2006. It features a new high-temperature, high-pressure turbine. The AL-31F M3 will enter bench testing in late 2006. This has a new combustor and redeveloped low-pressure (LP) compressor. A new cooling system will enable a 150ºC reduction in wall temperature, giving a longer lifetime. The AL-31F M3 will develop 31,970 lbst (142.2 kN) of reheated thrust.